Skip to main content

Of Making Many Books

And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end (Ecclesiastes 12:12) A pdf version of this essay  can be downloaded here [*] Years in brackets refer to an individual’s or book author’s year of birth Thought experiment for the day: Anyone born 1945 would be pushing towards 80 and mostly past their prime. So name any Charedi sefer written by someone born post war that has or is likely to enter the canon, be it haloche, lomdus, al hatorah or mussar. Single one will do for now — IfYouTickleUs (@ifyoutickleus) July 27, 2022 A tweet in the summer which gained some traction asked for a book by an author born from 1945 onwards that has entered the Torah and rabbinic canon or is heading in that direction. I didn't exactly phrase it this way and some quibbled about 'canonisation'. The word does indeed have a precise meaning though in its popular use it has no narrow definition. Canonisation, or ‘entering the canon’ is generally understood to

Let My People Speak

Due to this morning's arrests the position with comments has become further complicated due to sub-judice (pronounced, sub JEW dc) rules. For some helpful guidance please see the following links:

http://www.channel4.com/producers-handbook/media-law/contempt-and-reporting-legal-proceedings/contempt-or-sub-judice-rules

http://www.out-law.com/page-9742

Please read carefully before you comment. Editing comments is horribly time consuming and if there is any doubt the comment will not be published.

If there is a media lawyer reading this and is able to assist please can you make yourself known by email.

There is however no reason why there cannot be a sensible discussion on how we got to where we are and the many repercussions to the community of the current situation. So please do not give in to those who would like to silence us and do contribute to this very important debate.

Be heard not herded.

Comments

  1. Um... Lovely weather today...

    ReplyDelete
  2. Doesn't the discussion also have to fit charity commission guidelines?

    ReplyDelete
  3. This course of events was so predictable. Why oh why did they resort to this action against Google? Why did otherwise sensible people become entranced by this course of action?

    I, and others said in previous posts that going to the secular courts would trigger these circumstances. Others, of the opposite view, dismissed these statements as fantasy.

    Presumably, at some point, Mrs Justice Gloster may see the dangers of allowing an application against Google, where there is no-one present to put the case for the other side. Audi alterem partem used to be important in English Law.

    ReplyDelete
  4. got no personal ISP ID21 February, 2013 08:33

    You are not obliged to say anything but anything you say may be used as evidence in any future proceedings .
    If you say nothing your silence may be referred to in any future proceedings.

    ReplyDelete
  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  6. why dont you ever print my comments?
    It's not fair! I dont say anything wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  7. There were these bad guys. God saved us from them.

    Good Purim to one and all

    ReplyDelete
  8. Where does this leave the BD?

    ReplyDelete
  9. Were those whe were allededgedly arrested bailed yet?
    If not will they have a minyan for Zochoir & Megilah?
    Do they have a baaal korah?
    Off topic does DCGG still have a minyan,did they have one every day?

    ReplyDelete
  10. Now on the Beeb:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21530115

    ReplyDelete
  11. Are those arrested still in police custody?

    ReplyDelete
  12. Curious said...
    Are those arrested still in police custody?

    As of this am it seems
    http://www.bhol.co.il/article.aspx?id=51225

    ReplyDelete
  13. Yes, the hearings are taking place now in Hendon Magistrates Court.

    ReplyDelete
  14. A year long Purim21 February, 2013 14:34

    Can I remind the Kehilla of the severe dangers our children face, as highlighted by Shomrim a year ago. http://twitpic.com/8rxmu5

    "Children will be pre-occupied with their costumes...they may not be conscious of the dangers the streets bring"

    Great. Now our children are equipped with the seichel to stay safe. I wonder what advice Shomrim might have for adults obsessed with costumes and appearance?

    ReplyDelete
  15. Anonymous, do you mean:

    1) an application by the Police for more time (I presume thay have until tomorrow morning anyway)

    2) they have been charged and are being remanded and are making an application for bail?

    Are there are any reporting restrictions?

    ReplyDelete
  16. It's a closed hearing. No members of the public are allowed in.
    Unclear whether they are being charged or bail.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Anonymous, please keep us updated. Should the mispallelim at BLBH wait for him for mincha? Will there be a lechaim after if he gets back?

    ReplyDelete
  18. Another curious one21 February, 2013 15:18

    What basis is there in UK law for a hearing like this to be closed to the public?

    ReplyDelete
  19. Please let us know whether to wait for mincha or not ..........

    ReplyDelete
  20. BLBH Mispallel - you're a riot! LOL

    ReplyDelete
  21. Any link to updated news please?
    I hope that at least the other 3 will be allowed to hear Zochoir & megilah with a minyan.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Miriam Shaviv reports a relevant piece on a 54 year old who is under arrest will be running on BBC1 at 18:30. JC says police have been given a further 36 hours for questioning by Court

    http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/102716/police-continue-questioning-rabbi-halpern

    ReplyDelete
  23. http://www.barnetbugle.com/journal/2013/2/21/barnet-borough-commander-adrian-usher-writes-open-letter-abo.html

    ReplyDelete
  24. In this arid atmosphere for commenting I would like to suggest another line of discussion.

    Let's get some ideas for shlach manot presents to send Mr. Chaim Halpern in his place of detention. Any ideas?

    Also, any Purim costume suggestions for He Who Can Now Be Named.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Tickle,

    When is Google's deadline up?

    ReplyDelete
  26. Hediot . .

    Can we please have some leadership from our Rabbonim or Machers and arrange a NW wide Tefila or Tehillim for the Torah's and Schina's shame . . .

    ReplyDelete
  27. Kosher food supplier21 February, 2013 23:11

    I heard that it took several hours to get kosher food as the meals brought were LBD which the arrested felons refused to eat.

    ReplyDelete
  28. He asked for this21 February, 2013 23:13

    "Also, any Purim costume suggestions for He Who Can Now Be Named." How about wrapping him in an oversized towel!

    ReplyDelete
  29. Is this the end of 'Shomrim'?

    ReplyDelete
  30. I'm still waiting for someone to yell over a bullhorn, "Color War!"

    ReplyDelete
  31. The police have been granted another 36 hours to hold all 4. Still no news on whether they are pressing charges.
    Tickle, did you receive a temporary reprieve from the high court?

    ReplyDelete
  32. Hediot . .

    Ps. I refer to the young Rabonim and young askonim.

    The older generation can't multi-task




    ReplyDelete
  33. wondering from afar22 February, 2013 00:37

    Does anyone know who exactly the other 3 are? Is that also not allowed to be said publicly for fear of damaging the court proceedings?

    ReplyDelete
  34. For those of you who missed the BBC News broadcast about RCH. You can watch it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_vlfwQDqRE

    ReplyDelete
  35. Maybe as Parshas Zochor and shul's are extra full for each shul to say a kapitel when they say the mi she berach for 'tzorcei tzibbur b'emunah . . .

    ReplyDelete
  36. custody food procedures22 February, 2013 08:55

    The inmates were given plenty of suitable kosher food
    The blog saying that it was Lbd is simply inaccurate
    On arrival they were offered DD's sandwiches without delay
    Since then they have had plenty to eat
    The families have been allowed to liaise with them and take in fresh clothing as per normal custody procedures
    What is prudent is the long stay in a police cell. Police cells are not designed for periods of over 24HR's. It is rare to get extentions.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Yomim al yemei melech tosef?

    ReplyDelete
  38. Anyone supplying hamentaschen with a file?

    ReplyDelete
  39. Meuzzin said:

    Hediot,-
    before anyone responds to your call for prayers, check out the toichochoh from Joe Blogs (speakerscornernw11). Eichoh or Esther this year?

    ReplyDelete
  40. All the people joking about this situation:
    Whichever side of the argument one is, this is a very sorry situation and not at all a laughing matter.
    There are people locked up in a tiny cell having had all the liberties you and I take for granted, taken from them. It is extremely demeaning and depressing.
    Plus, there are their families: wives, parents, sons, daughters, son's in law, daughters in law & extended family and friends, all worried sick. Countless innocents who have not slept for nights, people too sick with worry to be able to eat more than a few morsels.
    This is supposed to be the happiest time in our year, and there are people who are suffering as nobody should ever have to suffer and people stand by cracking jokes.
    Can we really be so heartless?
    Before we crack the next joke, lets just think for a second about the plight of these people and their families (whether we think it deserved or otherwise) and how we would feel if we were in their position.
    Then lets see if the joke is still as funny as it sounded initially.

    ReplyDelete
  41. The anonymous idiot who posted the pathetic link to the other anonymous pathetic idiot Joe Blogs.


    Having lost the main plank of their argument that 'obviously nothing took place or else the police would have got involved', these blind fools now turn their attention to 'the lack of yashrus, temimus and loshon nekiyo of the bloggers'.


    Their whole yiddishkeit is venehapoch hu, black is white, up is down, CH is a tsaddik and a godol.


    As the old expression goes, if you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.


    The (equally anonymous and equally intemperate) Joe Blogs is flea ridden.

    ReplyDelete
  42. What about all the victims liberties? Not just suffering for one or two night but lifetimes

    ReplyDelete
  43. Hi everyone

    Any news on the four arrested?

    ReplyDelete
  44. @Realist
    Everything you say is true, but why didn't the accused think of that earlier?
    Had he heeded the warning of colleagues to leave last Sukkos, at least he would be abroad in a kolel in possession of his passport.
    You cry about his close family. Why don't you cry for the alleged victims? Why can't they be given justice? If the allegations are true, did you know that women can feel suicidal after such an experience?
    At least if he is tried and convicted, the accused might be told to do 'community service', which he is very good at.

    ReplyDelete
  45. 'Here Here', Realist.

    There are a bunch of very depressed people out there who are terribly unhappy with their lives. They silently rejoice at the news of hearing anything bad happening to people from their community. Whether it is people being locked up, people getting divorced, people doing badly in business etc.

    You know who you are! It's you who probably caused the whole Chilul Hashem outsise 215 GG Rd. a few weeks back when the police & Hatzolah were called in (can you believe these reshoim!).

    ReplyDelete
  46. Realist

    100% agree, it is a very sad day for the whole kehilloh. Those who joke about it will see worse yet for laughing.

    But the defendants were all warned.

    They were playing with fire by going to the secular courts. It wasn't Adar, when the mazal is good for law cases with goyim. it was parshas mishpotttim of all sedras, and still they went to the goyshe courts.

    ReplyDelete
  47. mgv -
    I am sorry you feel aggrieved that my yiddishkeit is upside down, and that I am flea-ridden, intemperate and whatever else.

    How exactly are you dealing with these feelings? I am dealing with mine very well!!

    I did not say CH was a "tzaddik and a godol" - nor did I imply this. It is not for me to say. But if you wish to distort my post to suit your own ends, please do so. The public can read and understand my words for themselves.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Furthermore, "Joe", whereas the Ramo allows a man to masquerade as a woman on Purim, there's no such hetter to do so the whole year round, as you do.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Charvonah

    You are one hundred percent right. And by the way I am an anti not a pro.

    I have sympathy for everybody concerned, but funnily enough even for the person who we all agree could have prevented all this.

    ReplyDelete
  50. http://chaimhalpernconspiracy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/all-four-released-without-charges.html

    ReplyDelete
  51. I think there is a very unusual aspect of this procedure which lawyers may debate for years. The arrests related to interference with the course of justice despite the fact that the only known judicial process involved is that of the Bais Din, which is a commission of inquiry under communal auspices. Now rabbinical tribunals have standing in civil matters when an arbitration agreement is signed by two sides in a dispute. But there is no obvious reason why an independent commission be considered as a recognised judicial process. If the bais Din is not a judicial process, then payment of a gratuity to someone for not testifying is only interfering with an inquiry, which is not a crime. But if a criminal complaint has been filed by one of the victims, even if it has not been deemed credible and therefore not acted upon, such payment might be considered interfering with the course of justice. Therefore it is likely that this indicates a prior criminal complaint, which has not been deemed actionable.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Sneaze Avenue:
    Why do you think that the obstruction of justice or witness intimidation which has been alleged is related to the Beis Din investigation? To the contrary, it sounds like there was a criminal investigation going on and that the police believe they are in possession of evidence that the individuals who are arrested attempted to intimidated from testfiying or otherwise discouraged from cooperation with the police. That is a very valid law for the authorities to uphold.

    ReplyDelete

Post a Comment

UPDATED REMINDER: PLEASE REFRAIN FROM USING ANONYMOUS!
I've been requested to remind commenters to stick to a handle so that discussions can be easily followed. Thank you!

Popular posts from this blog

Of Making Many Books

And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end (Ecclesiastes 12:12) A pdf version of this essay  can be downloaded here [*] Years in brackets refer to an individual’s or book author’s year of birth Thought experiment for the day: Anyone born 1945 would be pushing towards 80 and mostly past their prime. So name any Charedi sefer written by someone born post war that has or is likely to enter the canon, be it haloche, lomdus, al hatorah or mussar. Single one will do for now — IfYouTickleUs (@ifyoutickleus) July 27, 2022 A tweet in the summer which gained some traction asked for a book by an author born from 1945 onwards that has entered the Torah and rabbinic canon or is heading in that direction. I didn't exactly phrase it this way and some quibbled about 'canonisation'. The word does indeed have a precise meaning though in its popular use it has no narrow definition. Canonisation, or ‘entering the canon’ is generally understood to

“A Victim’s Perspective”

The following is a letter from one of Todros Grynhaus’s victims who testified at the trial when Grynhaus was convicted. The letter is addressed to 3 named so called ‘askonim’ who were involved in Grynhaus’s defence. The letter was written during the first trial when the jury were unable to reach a verdict . Grynhaus was convicted this week after a second trial. This letter is published with the written consent of its author. [Name and address] 8th March 2015 Dear Mr [], Mr [] & Mr [] I am addressing this letter to you, as part of the leading askonim looking to protect, defend and ultimately exonerate the notorious criminal in regards his current court case; I am aware that there are many other askonim involved and I am happy that they all take note of the points I put forward. Of course we are all mindful of that fact, that now that case has started, there is little your team can actually do, aside sitting and fidgeting in the public gallery ea

Ost of Eden

Just when you’ve given up hope in our entire leadership along comes someone to restore your faith in humanity. Step forward the real “Angel Gabriel” Ost. Arrested on suspicion of perverting the course of justice, he had the good sense and decency to step down in the interim from his position as CEO of Shomrim North West while he fights to clear his name. You may think that is not particularly remarkable and is exactly what any sensible person in his position would do. Alas, you would not have been living in Jewish London for the last half year if you harboured such thoughts. If only the main protagonist would have mustered the same dignity and courage and acted in a likewise manner, he would have saved the broader community, the UOHC, his own shul and followers, his family including his elderly father and, above all, himself the shame and disgrace that has justifiably been heaped upon them all. He could then have tried to clear his name away from the limelight and without draggin