And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end (Ecclesiastes 12:12) A pdf version of this essay can be downloaded here [*] Years in brackets refer to an individual’s or book author’s year of birth Thought experiment for the day: Anyone born 1945 would be pushing towards 80 and mostly past their prime. So name any Charedi sefer written by someone born post war that has or is likely to enter the canon, be it haloche, lomdus, al hatorah or mussar. Single one will do for now — IfYouTickleUs (@ifyoutickleus) July 27, 2022 A tweet in the summer which gained some traction asked for a book by an author born from 1945 onwards that has entered the Torah and rabbinic canon or is heading in that direction. I didn't exactly phrase it this way and some quibbled about 'canonisation'. The word does indeed have a precise meaning though in its popular use it has no narrow definition. Canonisation, or ‘entering the canon’ is generally understood to...
We’re in the news again and this time not for the wrong reasons. The Daily Telegraph has a long article in tomorrow’s magazine on chareidi Stamford Hill which they have put online. A nice and fair write up overall. The usual suspects, the buffoon, the ‘rabbi’, make an appearance and there is the oft recycled canard of Pinter senior establishing YH schools. As if. More like he climbed to the top and once there shoved everyone out of the way bar his children of course. But that’s for another day.
There are however other voices too and the writer has taken the time and effort to visit Dunsmure Road and Egerton Road. I mean how many journalists do that, though Oldhill Street may be too much to ask. You can’t fault a journalist who tries to gain entry to a kolel either and I suspect many will be relieved that his request was declined.
Yours truly is also allowed a few words edgeways though not quite enough to rain on anyone’s parade. But I’m not complaining because the article is far more comprehensive with context, historical background and research than anything I’ve seen for a long time.
What such articles however confirm more than anything is that so long that we, myself included, don’t take the law into our own hands no one will do it for us. The Telegraph or other papers or even the JC can only give us so much time and unless something of note takes place we are only one of many and there’s a limit to how much space can be dedicated to us. No one will ask the ‘rabbi’ the awkward question if we are not prepared to ask them ourselves and no one will challenge the buffoon on the rubbish and hypocrisy he spouts week after week if we ourselves can’t stand up to him.
Whether it is corruption, nepotism, endangering of lives (and I hear rumours of something major on that front), fundamentalism or downright stupidity you can either stand up to be counted or deserve what you get.
lol - i just read it and headed over to you - i cant believe he mentioned this blog. kudos!! (and i still remain your only commenter!)
ReplyDeleteI have just seen your blog thanks to failed moshiach, can you tell us a bit more about yourself.
ReplyDeleteThanks I notice it is not moderated. Do you live in GG or the Hill. Do you belong to a chasidus or any other grouping. I appreciate you want to remain anonymous but is there nothing at all you can tell us about yourself?
ReplyDeleteVery interesting blog that I sought out after reading the article. For "outsiders" like myself who are intrigued/interested in different communities it's nice to have some insight that is not filtered through the mainstream media. Keep it up!
ReplyDeleteGreat blog..keep it up
ReplyDeleteGut voch. You've disproved my theory about heimishe London being the only substantial Charedi community without a subversive internet presence. Your post on the milk fiasco was excellent - do you think that this is a sign of further secessionist movements or will kedassia continue their stranglehold over Charedi life in London?
ReplyDeleteAs a fellow Stamford hilly, Hi!
ReplyDeletevery entertaining.
ReplyDeleteIm impressed.
Kedassia has lost their stranglehold. Westheim has taken over the meat in GG and its only a matter of time till someone like Berry's sells it here. Anyone on the Hill with relations there buys it there. Its more kosher as well since the shechita is done the old fashioned way. R Frand the president in the last pesach booklet was already crying out for donations since they are losing on the meat. One wonders what this years book will say. I say to you chazak chazak v'nischazek ahead of next week's shabbos.
ReplyDeleteApparently there were some red faces when Kedassia wasn't kosher enough for Zimmerman from Gateshead and they had to implement some changes he demanded in order to get the contract.
ReplyDeleteBTW I think Zimmerman is one to watch. I don't know enough about him but he seems a lot abler than Padwa and with Schneebalg in Manchester past it and Padwa preoccupied with equnie matters Zimmerman may yet take the lead. Even Schiff of Antwerp is making the crossing too often for comfort in Filey Ave.
I'm not sure that Westheim has taken over the meat in GG - Kedassia meat still seems to be selling well, and many will have only kedassia meat in their homes.
ReplyDeleteHowever, the dominance of kedassia extends to many other areas too. The Halpern family are in control of many of the schools, although that may be starting to change, especially in light of this year's fiasco with places for girls in nursery.
I think that in light of the fact that GG'ers are looking over their right shoulders to the holy rollers of N16, if we do witness a rebellion there, with a Satmar or Belz secession (bimheira ve'yameinu), we are likely to see increased impetus for indepedence in GG.
The best of all possible worlds would be one in which Belzers started using the Eruv in SH - this could lead to an Egypt-style situation amongst the whole London kehilla. Let freedom ring!
I think that Knopfler gets more respect than the young Halperns. He has written seforim and is there by his own merits. He has surprisingly gone away from them with the milk. I cant see Belz or Satmar going away from kedassia, they dont have decent rabbonim. Even their own chasidim wouldnt trust them on meat. This blog has certainly taken off it needed the Telegraph to do it. Dunner could easily join up with Westheim his cousin and corner the market. The kedassia dont want him anyway.
ReplyDeleteLike many others, I've only just found this blog, courtesy of the Telegraph article. Just managed to read your piece on the milk. Its very well written. Well done.
ReplyDeleteBTW, as a Golders Greener, I'm interested if you managed to listen to a recording of the Sinitsky Keddasia Q&A session at Reb Chunas. Also if you're going to be covering the larger full Union Q&A session booked in for there next sunday night?
@Anon 15.27. The new Satmar Rov is for the moment unknown material although the Satmare are impressed especially after 10 years or so of his rigid, aloof father. Only time will tell if he has it in him to go it alone but since Padwa is inclined towards the Zalis one wrong step and the Ahroinim could break away.
ReplyDeleteAs for Belz, they indeed don't have a rov with the stature to secede but Eckstein is a bit of a nut and he may do something rash. Padwa is not loved there to say the least so who knows. The Belzer's son cheekily asked Padwa about the eiruv.
@Anon 19.40 I was not aware of these Q&A sessions and I doubt they would deign to have them in SH where it would probably descend into farce. Were serious questions raised or was it planted questions with formulaic answers? Please do give us a report.
This new satmar rov is already a known quantity. He's just lucky that the youngsters in his kehilla who chose him and put his white socks on him are bigger. His father and grand father wanted him out of his yeshiva so they dumped him here. He is doing a good job with them though, after his fathers 'churban'. But no way can they go it alone.
ReplyDeleteBelz have tried with Herzl milk products but in the end had to give in. They could start with a bakery though, under Eckstien. Belz dont have one, Satmar has a few. They would succeed. Since there cant go much wrong there. There is no personal loyalty to sharon or grods who have no family here. And people would flock there just to show kedassia.
Another Oiber Chuchom. Will you last as long as Frummer? or maybe you are Frummer? Feeding Fodder to the Beheimos. Pister Leidigeir Grober Chilul Hashemnik. Grober Pots. Mestomer you hang out in 26 and look like one of the bunch but inside you are a meesa shaigets you are Mekayem Bhiduroi Lo Sisneh Es Ocicho Billvovecha. You wont last FACT.
ReplyDeleteGavad Padwa:
ReplyDelete:-D
What a coincidence! I just happened to read this new entry, drawn to it by the excitment frothed up by the milk, horses and now the Telegraph, and the first comment I see reminds me about the old me!
Actually, I lasted quite a few years, as did the Shaigetz. It just became boring after a while. I mean, how long can one go on repeating the same things over and over?
I have to disaapoint, or perhaps delight you, but he is he, and I am I. Those days were fun though!
I shall have to join in these comments again. It brings back old memories! Long may it last!
And now Dear Gaaved, moving onto you.
It's classic watching you fall back on the old chassidish tactic of using Torah verses as spritual blackmail.
Why bother responding to or, scarier still, actually thinking about, the actual point raised. it's so much easier to bash the writer instead!
Frummer? aka Mr Tickle,
ReplyDeleteI'll respond to the points raised.
What do you really want?
An Eiruv or a Horse?
Go ahead force everyone to Drink Belz / Knopfler Milk, Eat Westheims Meat and get that Eiruv up! make Keddasia history. No more Padwa's no more Pinters! Ra'avad will be Reb Berol Knopfler Ga'avad will be Dayan Eckstein everyone will have a piece of the cake. Then when they get stronger and bring in their Takunos and Chumros and Bubba Maases, You will come crying begging for the 'P's return.
What's wrong with SH? what do you want that you cant have? You want to kiss your Kallo in public after your mitzva tantz; go for it! to Drink the new milk; Lchaim! To drive a Horse up Filey Avenue, Atta boy! We're not the deprived ones. You are! dressed in your Langer Reckel and Samet Hat for you it is like living in a straight jacket. Go and live in Scotland, rents are cheaper and the New Milk tastes even fresher! You can buy your Walkers Crisp and Tobelerone without having to look over your shoulder!
You live in SH because you want the benefits that come with it. You want your children to have the best shiddichim - you strut around knowing your children are safely ensconed in the Padwa / Pinter setup but let out your grievances at the other end without making Asher Yotsar afterwards.
Gavad, it's almost been worth writing this blog to hear a voice like yours. Why don't you start your own blog or write for the Tribune or Hamodia so at least they won't be so drab. Even the letter pages in the Update (worth a blog of its own) are more interesting.
ReplyDeleteTo your point though: you may be surprised to hear that some people want to change very little. There are people who just want to be able to sit in their illegal lofts and unlawful rear extensions and tap away at their keyboard just for the sake of it. They like sitting there late at night when the family is fast asleep or when the birds are chirping and the day is dawning and get words off their chest.
We are blessed to live in a community with an abundance of characters to write about: holy fools and charlatans, idlers and scholars, crooks and beggars and the many simple, inspirational people you bump into a chupes and receptions. Strang as it may sound, some of us just can't resist having a go and putting it down on paper. If you don't like it there's always Ben Yitzchok and Alex Strom who cater for your tastes.
Occasionally we too like to change something. That's not the exclusive domain of the rabbonim. My list would include not having to pay £2000 in cash for a public hall, not almost getting a whole class killed by carbon monoxide poisoning, my rabbi occupying himself with matters more lofty than a bloody horse, not being asked to contribute and say Tehillim for alleded child abductors. Need I go on?
Kol Hakavod on your blog! I am an 'outsider' as you may put it - I live in NW London, am a United Synagogue member and a JC reader (and eat KLBD meat!).
ReplyDeleteI love reading about the going-ons of N16 in the Tribune each week and on here and long may it continue!
Mr Tickle,
ReplyDeleteI commend you for not moderating my comments. At least (for the moment) you allow a platform for a 'voice' like mine.
I'm not stupid I know exactly where you are coming from.
I doubt you have made Chasuna to have even been Zoiche to pay £2000 in cash for a public hall. A gas leak can occur anywhere and 'our' Rabbi does occupy himself with matters more lofty than a bloody horse and don't feel obliged to say Tehillim for alleged child abductors.
You certainly have a bone of contention or two and by all means feel free to write your hands off and scream it from the rooftops.
But you and I know that it is wrong that your holy opinion has now been brought to light in the Telegraph and has since been nicshol many of our fellow community members to see your bags of Losh.
It is unfair that you live on the Hill enjoy your status as one of the mob but baschmitz us to Golders Green and beyond.
Youre now being asked to write what a great tsaddik these child abductors are. It seems the petition hasnt yet reached your shul. Cant believe youre from 26, though, didnt know anyone there knew English. But that youre right it is the biggest moshav leizim in town. They also have the best purim rov. Am surprised Nezri and company hadnt thought of that. One boy is already free at no cost, whereas the others have to suffer to prop up their finances. Of course we all like the P's, great characters the lot of them. They say the old ones played football in Vienna together. I cant see the present ones even knowing the rules of the game. Not sure where the horse comes in. Must have missed something. Although they always put the cart first.
ReplyDeleteThe new school, for girls whom pinter wont accept has got a Padwa and even calls itself beis yaakov. Most likely they teach the girls there to salt the maaser and that made Padwa front it. Well at last a school where the parents can have TV, unkosher mobile, internet at home Shh. Ankle length or see through stockings, take your choice. SH is really moving up!!!
"not almost getting a whole class killed by carbon monoxide poisoning"
ReplyDeleteShhhhhhhhh!
It never happened.
"not being asked to contribute and say Tehillim for alleded child abductors"
You missed having to sign a petition affiriming what wonderful parents they are! The organizers want the entire Stamford Hill to sign it!
Their stupidity makes me laugh outright! Which judge in their right mind will take note of thousands of people saying that they all know that these two shmucks are the best parents in the world??!!
Another example of small minded Stamford Hillies trying to think big.
Mr Tickle,
ReplyDeleteI commend you for not moderating my comments. At least (for the moment) you allow a platform for a 'voice' like mine.
I'm not stupid I know exactly where you are coming from.
I doubt you have made Chasuna to have even been Zoiche to pay £2000 in cash for a public hall. A gas leak can occur anywhere and 'our' Rabbi does occupy himself with matters more lofty than a bloody horse and don't feel obliged to say Tehillim for alleged child abductors.
You certainly have a bone of contention or two and by all means feel free to write your hands off and scream it from the rooftops.
But you and I know that it is wrong that your holy opinion has now been brought to light in the Telegraph and has since been nicshol many of our fellow community members to see your bags of Losh.
It is unfair that you live on the Hill enjoy your status as one of the mob but baschmitz us to Golders Green and beyond.
as a fellow stamford hilly , it makes me sick how the ~Rabbonim like to stick their heads beneath the sand as if THINGS aren't happening here ON THE HILL , if they don't see it , it ain't happening .WAKE UP there is soooooooooo much going on , address it , deal with it , i for one believe there are so many teens off the derech because of our Dear P.There is a real world out here and sooooooo much is GOING ON.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean!!
ReplyDeleteOsher ShaPiro claims no one is going off the derech!
All because of his efforts (and your money) Stamford Hill is the only place in the world where OTD doesnt exist. We have a right to be proud of our Ps. If you know anyone who is going OTD send him to shaPiro (with a large donation)and let SH keep its clean record.
I hear the new 26 guy is already contemplating sending some of his OTDs (he's not short) to work on computers!!
He is organising lessons in 26 for them, they are already over subscribed. One wonder whats next.