Wednesday, 15 July 2015

‘It is time that we say “Enough!”’

From a Pirkei Ovois Shiur by the Gateshead Rov, Rav Shraga Feivel Zimmerman, a true leader from the front who has shown immense courage by setting a personal example. He himself gave evidence at the trial and is the embodmiment of the mitzva לא תעמוד על דם רעך, Do not stand idly by on your friend’s blood.




Nameless said...

True leadership. IMYH this will be a watershed across the UK kehillas and all the vile, predatory scum will be swept off to rot in jail cells.

Anonymous said...

Rabbi Zimmerman is a true hero. He is not afraid to voice out and act in the right way.
At last there is a heimishe frum Rabbi that recognises and faces the truth and stands up for what is correct.
We need more leaders like Rabbi Zimmerman.

Anonymous said...

He is no hero! He is unprofessional and a Rosha. If there was anything to him he would not sing his own praises. For a Rabbi to actually testify in court is something unheard of. Even a priest who hears things in the confession box is not obliged to and would not testify himself in court. He is a very much hated figure here in Gateshead, who considers no opinions except his own.
Concerned Gateshead Resident

J. said...

The only concern for Gateshead is that idiots such as you live there. You really think it is wrong to testify against a prolific child rapist? If people such as you are unhappy, he must be doing something right.

Anonymous said...

This seems out of place. Although Rabbi Zimmerman seems to have done the correct thing by giving witness, his reasoning is off.
The purpose of placing a predator in jail, according to Torah, is not for the victims' rights, not for some vague purpose of 'justice', 'closure' or even revenge. The purpose is future possible/probable victims protection. The plaintiff is not the victim, it is society at large. Of course, for legal purposes we consider the case between the victim and the perpetrator, but that is not the reality.
This speech seems to be lifted from a blog, not the da'as torah of a talmid chochom.

A Supporter said...

I quote from the published Shiur notes
"A recent study in the USA placed child abuse as the single biggest cause for people going off-the-derech"

What is meant by people in the study referred to?
Who is the author of this study?
Is the study publicly available?

What are the other causes? and the quoted statement itself needs elaboration.
Can anyone assist?
Perhaps the Gateshead Rov can elucidate his comment?

Refoel said...

Anonymous - firstly, I don't see where R. Zimmerman makes the point you say he is making. Secondly, who appointed you to say what "the Torah's view" of jail is?

Anonymous said...

To all those who dont agree he should be in jail.What would you suggest we do with him. His father the Dayan (a joke) said he needs a dressing down. Well why didnt he give him one. The paper says that he now admits to being guilty. So Dayan have you given him one yet.
Let me tell you something else dayan, you never brought him up properly. Ask any of your minyan who now have all gone over to dunner. Your son was always hefker. You are the one who needs the 'dressing down' not your son. Your father in law, Mr Miller was ashamed of you. Everyone felt very sorry for Mr Miller. I am told his face showed it every shabbos. Its no use comparing yourself to Yitschok ovinu who had eisov. He wasnt to blame. At least in Yitschak's presence he behaved and fooled him. Your Todros never behaved, you never told him off, you just let him be.
Its about time someone told you (dayan) off. We dont yet know what the chronicle will say. I only hope they do. You ought to be sripped of your 'dayanus' and should never have got it in the first place. A dayan is supposed to learn and know choshen mishpat. You have never looked at it in your life. You run round the world for your kashrut that is not the job of a dayan.
Of course if Zimmerman comes to Hendon Adath he will have to join the dayanim like Roberts. Perhaps then he can give you the 'dressing down' you deserve.

PJS said...


Anonymous said...

oi can we have some kind of this manhigin down here in stamford kill ?!?

he is a hero !

koi le chay !

Anonymous said...

We in Gateshead would not wish him on anybody. You have to realise excluding the issue with Grynhous he has trampled on a lot of peoples here in Gateshead. Very fine people who have lived here for time in memorial have been treated like dirt! He has applied out of town, this is no secret but has been blocked by others who know his track record in America and Gateshead. He was only accepted because we were desperate. It is never as it seems from the outside.
He has no credibility regarding Grynhouse because he has acted deplorably with other issues.
Very Concerned Gateshead Resident

Mo Shack said...

You were 'desperate' in Gateshead? Yes, but not for a Rov. You could have followed Halocho and Gedolim and chosen the yoiresh. But you were 'desperate' to trample on the late Rov z"l's legacy. You were desperate to hurt an almono. So you took the first thing with a pulse.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 15:26 - His father did not say he needs a dressing down. His father said that was the prevailing opinion years ago. He did not offer his own opinion. You are hurting an innoccent person when he is down.
He was never hired for Choshen mishpot, he was hired for kashrus. And he does a great job

Anonymous said...

If that was the Torah opinion years ago then it would still be today. Since when does Torah change. And if he wasnt offering torah opinion (very likely) then he should have told the judge that it is his private opinion or 'prevailing' opinion and not daas torah and it changes depending if its his son or not.
Never mind what he was hired for. You're not called a plumber if you fly a plane. What right has he got to be called dayan.
Anyway he does sit in din torah's and all other things of the bais din. Well so did our friend chayim. If as you agree he knows nothing about it what is he doing sitting there?

david said...

Wow, it seems that someone is pretty ignorant about how Jewish law worked. Do you really believe that in the time of jewish rule a known thief was allowed to run loose, only paying fines when he was caught? Or that a murderer was free to go around killing people because the witnesses were always women or relatives?
Of course there were prisons where criminals were locked up under the mitzvah of 'you shall strike evil from your midst' or 'mored be'malchus'. I think raping and ruining lives falls under the evil category, don't you? It is a mitzva to lock him up and throw away the key - not just to protect future victims but also for what he did.

Anonymous said...

Zimmerman is the only Rabbi who has had the courage to deal with Grynhaus. Manchester is a safer place, now that Grynhaus is no longer in any position to touch anyone. The credit goes to Zimmerman and for that he is a hero.
He is the only Rav that cares and understands what molestation is all about. He is the only one who is willing to do something about this. He is saving neshomos.
Thank you Rabbi Zimmerman.

No Rav is perfect, so all you Gatesheaders out there, how about you exchanging with us and we send you down Rav Padwa or one of the Halpern Boys?

You are lucky to have Zimmerman and should appreciate the care and concern that he is showing for victims of molestation. Believe me, he knows a great deal more than all of you. He has heard it all. Trust him,

Velvel said...

To all you GH residents,

Stop obfuscating and hiding behind peripheral issues (he should never have been hired, he's trampled on persons "in memorial" etc etc). Face it, you are against the fact that Grynhause has gone to jail. You do not support the principles or the system that has led to his sentencing, nor the role the GH rov played in the matter. You believe that a jew should never be sent to jail and that we should deal with such things in house.

If my assumptions are correct (and if they do apply to you they certainly apply to plenty of people in GH and beyond), you are a disgrace. Rapists and paedophiles have operated with impunity for decades in our communities thanks to attitudes such as yours. At the very worst, they have been shipped from place to place (London, Gibraltar. Manchester) to spread their filth safe in the knowledge that they will never truly be held to account for their crimes - in olam hazeh at least. The GH rov has shown us that rabbonim are prepared to discard this evil attitude and put a stop to known abusers.

Moreover, of course justice is a valid reason for supporting Grynhause's imprisonment. If the goyim allowed such people to run amok we would accuse them of breaking the only positive commandment of their 7 and of creating an immoral society. Hayitochen that the goyim are required to have a justice system for enforcing law and order yet us yidden in golus do not? That we should be held to a lower standard than them?!? Of course not. In the absence of a beis din with powers in criminal matters we have no choice but to use the court system to enforce basic law and order by punishing such predatory behaviour.

ITK said...

So the new GG UOHC vaad harabbonim is being launched "imminently". Is this a belated way of finally dealing with the Charlie travesty? Nope; these bozos wouldn't even want to be suspected of doing anything that useful. Will it bring us cheaper or better quality kosher food? Not on your life. Are they worried about the impact that their reputational skydive is having on the bottom line? Very much so. One of the driving forces is R. Cohn, who is trying to find something useful to do with his time now that he's led his shul to near-collapse. The only comforting thought is that, if his previous record is anything to go by, it will be an unmitigated disaster.

voiceofreason said...

Rav Zimmernman must be commended for this - but that does not excuse trampling on peoples lives and parnoso the way has has over the last few years.

The Gateshead Kehila has had a torrid time over the last twelve years. The previous Rov did not lee over clear instructions as to who should take over. The Sons couldn't agree amongst themselves who should take over. When one son was finally chosen it was on condition that the almono moves to Manchester because his wife and mother didn't see eye to eye. Hardly a great role model ....

And yes, many people in Gateshead would take R' Padwa anyday over the current incumbent.

Sholem said...

Rav Padwa, despite being a relatively harmless fellow on a personal level, is probably the most inept rabbinic leader in the history of klal yisroel. He never misses an opportunity to make a fool of himself and the organisation he heads. Supporting Lev Tahor is just the latest example, but by next week there'll be another one.

Anonymous said...

He is not harmless, because he holds a position of leadership which makes him responsible for his actions AND inactions.

I struggle to see why someone would feel Kedassia is more reliable etc. with the Halpern, Lev Tahor and other scandals, than LBD with its very highly-regarded dayanim... I know which I prefer