Wednesday, 6 March 2013

Don't Kill the Bill

At the risk of boring you again, you will know that this site is under legal attack from those who wish to silence all of us through this country's draconian libel laws.

If you think it doesn't affect you, think again. Literally thousands of comments, the vast majority of which were not in any way even potentially defamatory, had to be removed due to the threat of legal action. The debate affects all members of our many communities and none more so than the vulnerable and powerless. This debate has now been muted by the fear of our oppressive libel laws. The chilling effects of those laws make us all shiver.

It is mainly the likes of those who remain at the helm of our community who benefit from these laws. Impervious to criticism, contemptuous of public opinion and immune from shame, they did nothing despite years of allegations and rumour and would continue to do nothing if only they could. Our supine press remains silent and our leaders conspire to keep us all in the dark. And now when they do take action it is to shut us up.

But you who have visited this site in the '00s of '000s have ignored bans and prohibitions to participate in the public outcry that has no precedent in our community. One macher commented that in his many years of askonus he has never known anything like this. This should surprise no one precisely because much of askonus is devoted to keep us in the dark and ensure that we knew nothing of such allegations.

But no more. We will not be silenced by their campaigns of intimidation. Let's take it as a compliment that when the illegal means of their camp were exposed to show them for the thugs that they are they were forced to resort to the law and the courts. The devil not only cites scriptures for his purposes but hires lawyers too.

In face of this onslaught please do not sit silently by. There is a campaign to change the libel laws in England and a bill currently before parliament is at risk of being derailed.


Please write to your MP and tell them how the libel laws are being used in OUR community to silence legitimate debate and stifle discussion of issues that go to the very heart of our physical and moral well-being. Ask your MP to raise this case in parliament and with ministers as another example of the threat to free speech in this country and as another reason why the libel laws must be reformed.

This is a link to the Libel Reform campaign where there is a link to write to your MP. There is no time to waste as time is running out. Please write and do what you can to tell our representatives in Westminster and beyond how the current laws are affecting each and every one of us individually and our community in general.

Thank You!


Moshe Laymore said...

Please use grammatically correct English when writing to your MP. Don't be afraid to ask if you are not sure.
Good for your Mr. Tickle. Keep up the good work.

Zorach ber said...

The issue is not the libel laws. Why should an anonymous person be able to defame anyone without having to expose himself. The real problem is that if someone has a true story about someone and he uses his name to publicize it, the community has enough resources to take revenge. Those resources must be removed or controlled, not the anti-libel laws that stop someone being able to be 'makeh re'ehu baseser'.

Adloyada said...

MPs are quite capable of coping with the odd grammar and spelling error, so don't let it hold you back if you are worried that your written English is less than perfect.

What's really essential, if you're writing to your MP. is to include your full name and postal address on your letter, as they check whether you are on the electoral register and only deal with correspondence from their registered constituents. You can email as an alternative sending a letter, and so it doesn't need to have a handwritten signature if they do. But it does have to have an email address registered with an ISP as uniquely yours.

My MP (Mike Frere) is exceptionally fast and efficient in responding to queries and letters sent by email.

golders greener said...

zorach ber is right. this libel bill has nothing to do with the vast majority of comments on this site. the court action against this blog involves only anonymous people who have made clear and defined accusations on this blog, not the general chitter chatter. if you want to accuse someone, you'd better have the proof to back it up, otherwise you should be held for libel.

Joe Blogs said...

Mr. Tickle,

You might be extremely aggreived but you still need to remember that the secular libel laws are closely related to our own loshon hora laws. We cannot say whatever we like, however we like, if a third party's reputation is involved. RCH is entitled to protest and prove his innocence on whatever counts there are against him, and all comment prior to the completion of this process must therefore be decorus and considered, not raw emotional ranting. No-one is being silenced. It is about moderation in the way we express our thoughts and feelings. Nor can we change the laws just because they don't suit our emotional state when we are angry. The laws are there to protect us from just these raw emotional reactions.

Women are silenced all the time in Jewish life - we just have to blog (or grit our teeth) if we don't like anything. Maybe we should start a campaign against all the laws we don't like? Why should we be silenced, either? If I wrote about various things and people the way some have on your blog, the community would disown me pretty quickly and call me a bad influence. And you want the libel laws changed to allow you to express your feelings! Like an aggreived man might kill?? Like an embittered agunah might want the law changed?? Have you no legal principles to guide you, sir?

Stamford Hillbilly said...

Tickle, if all the comments were right and none were defamtory, why are you worried?

Let's take the mental leap to assume that the accused rabbi would actually take you to court (once he discovered the found out some true identities via the Google order) for libel, rather than beis din (which would be a decision he would have to justify in halachah).

What then? If all the claims here were true, then why are you running scared? You should all welcome your day in court to prove all the allegations made here. And if there are comments that are untrue and defamatory, let them pay damages. Isn't that justice?

In running scared, you took down all the comments, not Google or the rabbi's legal advisors, just in case you've forgotten what you wrote in Tickle Tackled.

Let's quote the judge "Though of course the protection of freedom of speech is very important, people who make weasly comments online in circumstances such as this should not be allowed to hide behind the shield of anonymity."

If the kehillah if actually behind your particular virulent brand of "legitimate debate", you should have nothing to worry about. Come out of the computer closet, loud and proud, and wait for the adoring masses to shower you with roses for your productive open discussions that you believe actually help matters rather than hinder.

The question speaks volumes: Do you have the courage of your supposed convictions?

kedassia man said...

Sorry Mr. Tickle
For the first time I must disagree with you.
The libel laws are NOT draconian. Their primary purpose is to protect the weak and vulnerable from the attacks of powerful and all-embracing media and other slanderers.
If you are rich you can sue in the courts but there is no legal aid for slander and libel claims and ordinary people are helpless.
There have been many cases of completely innocent people being completely character assassinated and ruined and, to my certain knowledge, at least one suicide by so called free speech.
Not for nothing is Loshon Horah and Moitzi Shem Rah one of the gretest aveirois in Judaism.

JD Rebbe said...

Dear Mr. Tickle,

Please move your site to the US.

Chazak V'Emeatz!


Bridge Lion said...

The laws should be strengthened not weakened. Whether you think Chaim Halpern is innocent or guilty, there are clearly lots of cases when rumours spread about someone do damage to an innocent person's reputation.

amie said...

Joe Bloggs, you say: "Nor can we change the laws just because they don't suit our emotional state when we are angry.The laws are there to protect us from just these raw emotional reactions."

I admire much that you write, but is disrespectful to all the lawyers, health campaigners, investigative journalists and bloggers who have contributed to the careful, considered consultative 2 year process that culminated in the proposals for change, to dismiss them like children having a tantrum. Yes, some of us (I am a lawyer) are angry- angry that the libel laws in this country are so weighted against the defendant that England has long been the libel tourism capital of the world: where the powerful cannot silence people speaking the truth in their own country, they intimidate and ruin them by using our courts, but it is not raw emotions that slogged over the the detail of these amendments but professional and thorough work. The amendments to the law do not go far enough, but all the hard work that led to these proposals is being sabotaged by certain people with a vested interest in keeping it the way it is. I can't say more.. because of the libel laws. I beg you just to read this, and then see that you must write to your MP.

kedassia man said...


What about the overwhelming majority of innocent slandered and libelled people who for a variety of reasons, usually money,cannot go to the courts?

Who looks after them?

Especially in our closed "ghetto" (I use the term as a method of illustration not c.v. derisorily) enviroment. A whisper becomes a rumour and in very little time becomes an established fact. How many times have you heard the term "Everybody knows"? And there is nebech no recourse.
There is nowhere in Choshen Mishpot any (earthly) penalty for Loshon Horah or Moitzi shem Rah.

Absolutely Anonymous said...

A bit shivery down here, on the grounds that reiterating ethics from Moses of the Jews is libellous to Her Majesty and all who shelter under Her protective wings when they have nothing more to make up in Shulchan Aruch I look forward to a healthy 10 years (minimum) in striped pyjamas

Adloyada said...

Disgusting and painful to see the supporters of the establishment and those who are using the Courts to try to silence Reb Tickle coming here to gloat and mock him with the equivalent of "if you can't stand the heat...".

The use of the Courts via libel actions against someone like Reb Tickle is all too commonly done quite cynically to ensure that they suffer by having their names exposed, and possibly their or their children's life chances and parnoseh ruined, but also to silence truths which the community needs to know. Savile used libel threats to prevent the Sun and other papers from publishing the true details of his brushes with the police, and was thus left to go on abusing children.

The cost of fighting a cynical libel action almost crushed the campaigner Simon Singh who was fighting the promotion of fake remedies and therapies, because taking even a solid refutation case to court against a cynical accuser is hugely beyond what almost any individual who isn't themselves very rich or has a very wealthy bankroller can afford. This method was used by David Irving for years to fight and silence anyone who tried to challenge his Holocaust denial fakeries, and he was only defeated because he was stopped by a publisher prepared to fork out unbelievable sums of money to establish the truth. Almost no commercial publisher would do that today.

If a document with the authority of the GG Gilui Daas was produced in a Court hearing,there would be most unlikely to be any credible case against a blogger largely drawing on its publicly available content like Reb Tickle. The fact that no libel action has been taken against its issuers can be used to evaluate the real reasons for action being taken against Reb Tickle, and anonymous or pseudonymous commenters, the overwhelming majority of whose comments would seem to be trivial against the weight of the publicly issued GD and the reports published in the JC.

BlackHatOrangeBeard said...

The commenters here went far beyond what the GD and the press reported, building conspiracy theory on top of unfounded rumour and this actually muddied the waters to the extent that some weren't sure what was fact our fiction.

If this blog wouldn't exist, we would only have had the authoritative letters from our rabonim and the picture would have been much clearer.

By encouraging "debate", Tickle, you allowed those with agendas and preconceived prejudices to play their silly games and hurl abuse and outlandish accusations at almost anyone who has ever taken a kehillah role.

This blog and some of its more extreme commenters have been counter productive and gave a lit off ammunition for those who prefer to remain in denial.

Oppose the libel "reform", support common sense.

Joe Blogs said...

Well, as luck would have it I am also a lawyer! [As well as a kedassia-eating apikores (??), who doesn't have a dog to worry about over pesach, and, last but not least - a woman]. (Sorry. Most of that is only relevant to my own blog!) And it is because of my legal mind that I can separate facts from emotions, and thus identify when change is needed as opposed to when change is sought for mere convenience (to placate people who have think the law can be manipulated to achieve their goals without there being any real principle behind each and every law). See the difference?

VoR said...

I don't see anything in this libel bill which confers a right to anonymity? Nor do I think such a right should be conferred. If I were you, Tickle, I'd beat them to the punch and go public, as the consequences are unlikely to be that severe. 85% of London's charedim, albeit the poorer 85%, support you. You'd have to stop the trenchant blogging, but many would pick up where you left off - using proxy servers....

kedassia man said...

Joe Blogs

If you are a woman you have to be choishesh for Loi Yilbash as you are using a man's name.

Also as a woman, I presume you are married, please correct me if not, it is not you that is the kedassia eating apikores. According to halacha, and it is a condition of your kesubah, you must conform to your husband's minhagim. Ergo, HE is the apikores.

I would add that you are almost unique in the world. How many women (jewish ones in particular)in the world are capable of seperating fact from emotion?

exdc said...

I thought this was a purim spiel until I read through it again but no Tickle was serious. Honestly? A (nominally) Orthodox Jew begging for the right to anonymously write whatever you want against other Jews without any standards or burden of proof for the commenters?

Tickle, you know only to well that the average GG Jews are not behind you. I know some of the haters find this hard to comprehend, but it's possible to accept the GD, be critical of the Union's handling, and still find this blog a absolute shame and disgrace to our kehillah.

You view the hundreds or thousands of blog viewers as some form of support. It isn't. It's blind, unquenchable curiosity and a desperation to hear the latest developments of the largest scandal ever to hit our kehillah. It is NOT support for your stance or those who comment.

Your blog became the first port of call for scanned rabbinic letters that is the true, sober, reliable narrative. The rumours in the running commentary were always unverifiable, anonymous, and often outlandish and sometimes downright revolting. People visited your blog despite the commentary, not because of it.

Many people here, some of them unashamedly anti-establishment, nevertheless expressed quiet satisfaction with the libel action as the comments here were a shame and disgrace to our kehillah even if they were the product of a vocal few.

Joe Blogs said...

kedassia man, I need to correct you on several matters. First, if I were to conform to some of my husband's minhagim I would need to live in a zoo and consequently I have a heter (under "al tifrosh min hatzibbur") not to follow him blindly. Second, I described myself as an "apikores" (should that be 'apikoresse'?) for reasons other than being a kedassia-eater. (Man-eating spiders, kedassia-eating women - Hashem have mercry!) And finally I am in no doubt that your own wife is well capable of separating fact from emotion - you are still alive aren't you??

Sick to the stomach said...


Speak for yourself - I fully support Tickle's work. Without these blog comments you consider so "shameful" and "disgraceful" the rabbonim wouldn't have acted.

Keep it up Tickle, you have tons of support.

kedassia man said...

Joe Blogs

How do I know you don't live in a zoo? And, like most of the tzibbur, whether you like it or not you ARE bound by your husband's minhogim .

You may right about my wife's emotions but the lovely house, the car, the jewellery, the annual holidays in Switzerland etc. etc. are undisputed facts and powerful disincentives to the instinctive emotions.

me said...

The only shame is that your kehilah hasn't got anyone with cojones to stand up for truth and justice, the rug must be a big one as all the dirt get brushed under it. Plain and simple Edxc kedassia need to get their house in order, get the kehilah back on track with emunas chachomim and grass root moral values. The lack of rabbinical leadership and respect of fellow peers within kedassia might be the under lying problem. restructure and restart a kehilah that once was.

Ben Johnson said...

Anonymous kedassia man said...

"You may right about my wife's emotions but the lovely house, the car, the jewellery, the annual holidays in Switzerland etc. etc. are undisputed facts and powerful disincentives to the instinctive emotions."

And who says romance is dead...

Oh sorry I forgot, romance is a goyishe concept.

exDaCee said...

The rabbonim starting proceedings ages before any internet bloggers mucked in and tried to force a quick rabid resolution.

Before the blogs got wind of this DADD & DSF (not to mention RSW) of the Union Rabbinate were already fighting for the same thing as RBK.

Yes, the Union as a body have a lot of questions to answer but your taking a mental leap in assuming the blogs prompted all the action, and I don't think they did - to the contrary. It was the other rabbonim's actions, in forcing his resignation caused the Union to call for a beis din (before the GD), not the blogs.

This story needed no internet to give it wings, though I'm sure those commenting have convinced themselves you're somehow fighting a maleches shomayim instead of just opining from a keyboard.

The GD too would have happened without the bloggers and those 5 rabbonim themselves took the trouble to use half of the GD to counter the blogs (which went even further downhill after the GD).

To quote:
"It is a matter of great regret that certain individuals have exploited this tragic situations to air their views in a highly inappropriate and inaccurate manner and this we condemn unequivocally. We deplore this chillul Hashem and implore the tzibbur that all such conduct should cease forthwith."

The comments here just created a split between those extremists on both sides and muddied the arguments.

On the ground, if you take a poll amongst all of GG, from MO to chassidim, there is no general support for the actions of this blog and the general commentary (even if many do read it).

As soon as someone was declared by some anonymous commenter to be involved in the matter, whether there was any basis for this or not, he was vilified. If there this any sort of support as you claim then ONE SINGLE person would have posted under their name. The fact that people didn't and dont to this day speaks louder than any argument I can make. We all know much of what we write is unhelpful.

We all think we make wonderful insightful points but fail to realise that on a public blog, there will be counter-responses, people from agendas from all sides, and many unverifiable "facts" written in support. All of this did untold damage to impressionable youth and adults who swallowed every word as fact, and created a rift rather than a common goal.

Tickle himself commented that even the 21 rabbonim of SH (only 1 of which sat on the Union rabbinate) who wrote that the GD was flawed did not declare him innocent, nor did they attack rabbonim. The language of the the rabbonims' notices has been respectful and moderate, considering the depth of feeling. By contrast the tone here has been hsyterical and often childish.

Taken as a whole the rabbonim can still teach the blog commenters about how to deal with this, not the other way round.

The blogs have merely been a running commentary, often shameful in tone and content, and almost entirely counter-productive.

(Changed my name as I've been told there was previously someone commenting as exDC.)

Joe Blogs said...

Kedassia man, once again I need to speak with you.

Most of the tzibur are NOT bound by my husband's minhogim. As far as your car(s) and general lifestyle are concerned, you might eat kedassia food and your wife might even be the ultimate in tznius, but I am afraid by my standards you are just a sham orthodox bloke who understands the concept of tznius to mean nothing more than a lady's dress code. All your learning has got you to that?? Its a good job you are married to someone other than yours truly or my instinctive emotions would land me in prison for life.

you said...


The problem with Kedassia is an overwhelming love of money. An overwhelming love of power. An overwhelming love of kovod. Complete and utter selfishness regardless of the effect on others. A tendency to always take the line of least resistance.

By them image is everything regardless of whether there is any substance.
A good example is their recent tantrum over the foil-dish lids.

There's more but it's nearly Shabbos.
Good Shabbos to all.

amie said...

Joe Bloggs I admire your quirky humour but deplore your lack of knowledge of the law of defamation in the UK,let alone a comparative perspective of such laws in other countries. You may well be a lawyer, but how much experience do you have in that specialised area? How closely have you followed the 5 years of preparatory work and negotiations between all interested parties, private and public, including political parties, which preceded the Bill which is a shining example of civilised and unemotional compromise between all the contributors.

For you to make the reckless claim that
"change is sought for mere convenience (to placate people who have think the law can be manipulated to achieve their goals without there being any real principle behind each and every law)" leads to the conclusion that your answer to my questions above must be that you have not been studying, following or understanding the process at all.

In fact, some of those trying to sabotage the Bill are the very people who would manipulate the law to suppress truths which is in the public interest to know, (not merely in which the public is luridly interested- you do know the difference?) and in some cases, pure emotional revenge against the press. Largely, the sabotage is cynical party political poker playing more concerned at blocking the other party than a just and long overdue reform of the law which simply would balance the rights of both sides more equitably- whereas the law has been overwhelmingly weighted in favour of rich and powerful complainants.

kedassia man said...

Joe Blogs ( and the other one!)
Good Voch.
Oh, dearie me! What started out as a bit of light hearted banter has changed (may I say descended?) into a serious debate!
Of course the whole tzibbur is not bound by your husband's minhogim but YOU are. And my wife is bound by mine. As it happens my minhogim are not very onerous and indeed not much different from her father's and she is more than happy to conform.

I and her are both very proud of her tzenius and while she is not what you and some other am ho'ratzim describe as the "ultimate" in tzenius, e.g. she wears an uncovered sheitel and uses make-up, we are both justly proud of our yiddish shtieb.

And I assure you that her tzenius goes FAR beyond what you stupidly describe as a "dress code"

She has been following our exchange and just said that she is glad she is not like you and just told me how lucky I am to have married her and not you. And I must say that just this once, and it is quite rare:-), I am 100% in agreement with her.

Joe Blogs said...


I am not sure where you have picked so many wrong threads from my comments:

When I commented about the libel laws I was speaking specifically with regard to the original post by Mr. Tickle, not about the pros + cons of the current state of any English laws. I would not be using a general blog as a forum for the legal debate between lawyers and legislators, since blogging is far too much fun to be hijacked for such purposes.

Do you think that Mr. Tickle's desire to get the libel laws changed (as per his post above) is for any purpose other than his own desire to see RCH defamed on various blogs? Do you think he has considered all aspects(affecting all interested parties) of the existing law to reach his conclusion, or do you think it more likely, on the balance of probabilities, that gut reaction is his driving force? Perhaps you know him better than I do, indeed he may be a libel lawyer (which I am not).

Either way, try to be more discerning in what you deplore - I have not once said that the libel laws don't need reform. I haven't expressed an opinion on this substantive question. All I have said is that if the law is changed it should be done for the right reasons, not because emotions against a given person are running high. I do hope, this time, you see the difference.

See you in court. (Or in shul. Or jail, or Tesco's).

Joe Blogs said...

kedassia man (and his good lady),

I am glad to have been of assistance in bringing sholom bayis between you.

Your wife's tznius is not what I was actually trying to highlight - it was your lack of it, as depicted in the comments concerning your lifestyle (posted an hour or so before shabbos). I must try and make myself clearer in future as you are not the only person who has had trouble understanding me of late. Anyway, gut voch to you both.

Ps: Mr. Blogs says you are indeed a lucky man.

VoR said...

Kedassia Man: If I didn't mention that your views are obviously repulsive and not at all funny, I would be accused of agreeing with them.

Joe Bloggs: I have no idea as to the precise arrangements of your chromosomes, but abusing the apostrophe surely conclusively disproves any pretentions to a legal career?

exDaSee: Surely a community which can live at peace with Gaby Lock can live at peace with Mr Tickle?

BLBH supporter said...

We have now reached a serious point in this whole debate.

Do we go with the late R Padwa's psak that cottonseed oil is kitnios (even though the seeds are inedible) or do we buy the American crisps and mayonnaise?

kedassia man said...

Joe. Our sholom bayis was ok before we started. My wife's and myrules of tzenius are guided by our Rebbe.

VoR. Where's your sense of humour? It's still Adar you know. And anyhow who cares what you think.

Back to you, Joe. My wife likes my views. Come to think of it, it's more than likely that they are actually her views.
Vos toot mann nisht fahr Sholom Bayis? Now we have Joe blogs helping us things have got a bit easier!
Tell Mr. Blogs I absolutely agree with him and both my wife and I are sorry for him.

Joe Blogs said...

VoR: "Abusing the apostrophe" ?? Why - how many wives does kedassia man have?

Oh, were you talking about "Tesco's"? Yes, that one might have been out of place. But at least I can only be accused of abusing an apostrophe.

ploni2007 said...

...Or do we go by Rabbi Scharf's psak (Kedassia) that lids for foil containers are Chometz and no authority should give a hechsher for them - or by Rabbi Padwa (KLBD)that they are 100% ok, and can be used lechatchilo even without their hashgocho ....

amie said...

Joe Bloggs: So what it boils down to, you are attacking Mr Tickle's bona fides. No, I don't know him personally, but everything he writes evidences a strong principled approach to libel law reform and freedom of expression. The fact that this approach is informed by his own experience in no way detracts from the bona fides of his advocacy for reform. (Any such reforms would come too late for him to benefit, anyway.)
On your premise, absurdly, only those born into wealth can campaign against poverty, so that those who have known and experienced it are disenfranchised from campaigning because they might speak from this personal experience!
You, on the other hand.. your writing on the subject raises compelling questions as to your real agenda, your bona fides even, regarding your attacks on Mr Tickle..

kedassia man said...


You are going neither by Rabbi Sharf's psak or Rabbi Padwa's (nephew of R' Efraim and son of R' Yossel).

They are both hired hands. The hechsher is given by the Rabbonim. In R' Sharf's case it is R' Efraim and in R' Padwa's case it is R' Chanoch and the decision is yours and yours alone.

It is fair to say that both are acting on their boss's orders as otherwise, presumably, they would be fired.

kedassia man said...

Joe Blogs.

Just one wife. That is exactly enough for my needs. Not too many, not too few.

We do our shopping at ASDA. It has a good underground car park - see my earlier post.

ploni2007 said...

Kedassia Man

Obviously, these 2 gentlemen are only the spokesmen for their respective organisations ! What it appears though to a layman such as myself, is that one of these 2 reputable and respected organisations got a bit cheesed off because they were not asked to give a shtemple to a product which presumably would bring in a few sorely missed £ to their coffers, and therefore they decided that if THEY couldn't give a hechsher - well then nobody else should !!! Sour grapes, I ask myself ? It also appears that there is quite a groundswell of support from other Chosheve Hashgochos and Rabbonim around the Country for the view of the KLBD.

kedassia man said...

I cannot comment on your opinion as it is a free country and you have every right to have it and exporess it. Of course you might have authoratative evidence for your statement.

If this is so the implication of your suggestion is terrifying. They only give a hechsher if it is financially viable (to them)? I won't expand but if you are wise you will see where this leads.
You will find some guidance in the last mishnah of Masechta Kidushin.

BLBH supporter said...

Well, if you want jam for Pesach, it is KLBD or nothing!

No MH manchester, no Kedassia.

And as for the pesach Kedassia mayonnaise and ice-cream, I don't know why they bother. It is awful. The only good thing one can say, is at least they have sell-buy dates unlike much of the American stuff.

Adherent said...


Tickle "approach" to libel reform law has as much connection with "strong principles" as the kedassia bashers are concerned with the foil lid industry.

Tickle is running scared from a libel action and his interest in this is entirely self-serving.

He's intellectually honest enough to publish comments like this which attack his stance, but that's as far as I would go in praise. His blog has not helped victims one iota and the comments (although admittedly not written by him) far less so.

The question has been asked before and should be asked again. If Tickle thinks the kehillah at large supports his stance and methods, why doesn't he come out in the open. GL is also a maverick but at least is brave enough to put his real name to his opinions.

The leaders he accuses of "taking action to shut us up" includes the GD rabbonim who asked for the blogging to stop. There is no basis to suspect anyone in the Union, or anyone besides the accused rov himself, from being behind the libel action.

Kedassia man: You are wrong about there being no basis for claiming damages for Loshon Horah or Moitzi shem Rah in halochoh.

adloyada said...

Arrests re suspicions of sex assaults at UK ethnic minority strictly religious girls' school & higher study institute.Thank goodness such a thing could never happen in organizations with safeguarding policy as watertight and legally compliant as that of the UOHC:

kedassia man said...


Mareh Mekoimois please.

Objective said...


We keep on hearing about 'victims'
Have you not considered that this is possibly libellous to the alleged victimiser who might be completely exonerated of all guilt?

Joe Blogs said...

@Adherent -

if one can claim damages for loshon hora and motzi shem ra in halocho, can I take all those who have publically called me a man to the BD?

kedassia man said...

Joe Blogs.

I suggest we wait for Adherent to furnish his Mareh Mekoimois. We can then look them up to see if you have a case.

If we do we can always hire a $100k toyen to advise us. Maybe he would be willing to do it on a "no fee, no win" basis.

Always assuming that it is moitzi shem rah to call a woman a man. I personally think it is the other way.

amie said...

News from the Libel Reform campaign
18Mar13 – 12:58 pm
by Index on Censorship

Dear Friends

There has been some important news today. An agreement has been struck to remove the ‘Leveson’ amendment to the Defamation Bill. This is welcomed news. All of your letters to MPs and the Prime Minister have made it clear why the Defamation Bill matters, and why it must not be caught up in the debate about press regulation. Thank you so much for taking up the cause so actively.

We are still waiting for confirmation that the Defamation Bill will be back before Parliament in the next couple of weeks, so if you haven’t written to your MP or the Prime Minister already, could we urge you to do that now?. We also have much to do to make sure that all MPs (and especially those who joined Parliament in 2010) know about the injustices that gave rise to the Bill. We are meeting with as many as we can to talk about ending libel tourism, the hurdle of “serious harm” to prevent vexatious cases, restrictions on corporations suing individuals and a new public interest defence.

As soon as we have further information about a timetable for the Defamation Bill returning to the House of Commons we will let you know.

Breaking news:
Free Debate ‏@freedebate

Huge thanks for your letters to MPs and PM. Just heard agreement reached to remove ‘Leveson clause’ from #libelreform

ben goldacre ‏@bengoldacre

"Agreement struck to remove ‘Leveson’ amendment to Defamation Bill." Good. This was a shameful episode. #libelreform