Thursday, 23 October 2014

ושמרו בני ישראל את השבת – ShabbatUK Special

I know that ShabbatUK (or ShabbosUK as we don’t call it) has hardly registered round here but I for one can’t help being inspired by it. Shabbos is truly a gift that all can partake in. From the chosid who brings it in early on Thursday night with multiple helpings of tsholent and kugel and barely draws it to a close Sunday morning at 3am while seeing off the Shabbos Queen with the leftovers (some households serve it for Sunday supper too), to obsessed halachists fretting with the opening of fridge doors and unscrewing bottles, to the less observant who might celebrate Shabbos with a Friday night dinner and leave it at that.

One thing is certain: from the hushed elegance of the candlelighting by the woman of the house before sunset on Friday to the more raucous extinguishing of the fire by the man of the house after nightfall on Shabbos, Shabbos is a uniquely Jewish experience. In an age of slavery it introduced the concept of a universal day of rest for everyone from the master to the animals, and it remains no less relevant in our non-stop, 24/7 era. For as long as Shabbos lasts there is little but Shabbos and what surrounds it. Time to reflect, time to enjoy, time to reap the fruits of the week that was and time to rejuvenate for the week to come.

Let us not pretend that it is always easy and the long summer Shabbos afternoons can be a challenge even for the most faithful. But then this is after all religion and not the product of focus groups; one size fits all is in the nature of the beast. Yet nevertheless at its heart is a day of rest, a day of spiritual enhancement and physical enjoyment, a time for parents to enjoy their children and a time for children to get the attention of their parents. As the zmiros goes, Hashomer shabbos habein im habas, Shabbos is observed with the son and the daughter.

So how welcoming to see the new Chief Rabbi’s initiative in organising and promoting ShabbatUK when thousands will partake in the joy of Shabbos, and for many of who it may well be their first such experience. It is often humbling to see how others react to Shabbos when for us who were brought up with it it can sometimes come across as stale and boring. Unfortunately, I will not be hosting anyone or doing anything towards this special Shabbos and yet it is impossible to see and read the excitement about it and not get carried along. So here, dear readers, is my vort lekoved Shabbos Kodesh, ShabbatUK.

On Friday night we recite 3 times the words of Vayechilu hashomayim v’horoetz, which are the psukim for the 7th day of the Story of the Creation in Sefer Breishis. We say it once privately in the shmone esre, once publicly immediately after and a 3rd time over wine with our family at the start of Kiddush.

The words are:

ויכולו השמים והארץ וכל צבאם
ויכל אלקים ביום השביעי מלאכתו אשר עשה וישבות ביום השביעי מכל מלאכתו אשר עשה
ויברך אלקים את יום השביעי ויקדש אותו כי בו שבת מכל מלאכתו אשר ברא אלקים לעשות

And the heaven and earth were completed with all their hosts
And on the seventh day God completed all the work which He had made, and He rested on the seventh day from all the work that He had made
And God blessed the seventh day and He sanctified it for He rested in it from all the work which He created.

These psukim teach us the specialness of Shabbos. Completing a job doesn’t always bring with it rest. One can complete a job and still be troubled by aspects of it, wanting to go back and change something, regretting at not having done things differently and altogether being stressed about the job despite the fact that it is complete. This is why completing a job is not quite the same as resting from it.

Rest, however, on its own is also not enough. Even when you put your feet up from a task completed other anxieties may arise. What now, what next, are often the prevailing thoughts after having laboured on a project even if it was successfully completed, and holiday blues is a recognised mood that some people experience when taking a break. A blessing is required to introduce peace and harmony to rest and the absence of work in itself is not enough. And when spirituality is introduced to that blessing only then do we have a true day of rest and respite from the rough and tumble of life.

This is what these puskim teach us: Not only did Hashem complete the Creation on the day of Shabbos but He also rested on that day. That too was not enough and In addition Hashem endowed this special day with His blessing and then sanctified the day on top of it all.

It is this blessing that we feel at our Shabbos table surrounded by our families and enjoying the Shabbos food and it is this spirituality and kedusha that we aspire to in the uplifting Shabbos prayers and zmiros.

It must be a privilege and a duty for us who were born into it to be able to share it with others.

Gut Shabbos!


פי האסון said...

Shabbos is a very special day, and ShabbatUK was a great success.

It is a great shame that so much of the charedi community made little, if any, effort to participate.

We are told that the mabul is called may Noach because he remained insular and did not try to bring others closer to HaShem. The Sfas Emess on Noach states that a person who keeps all mitzvos and never sins, will not receive a (great) reward in the world to come unless he causes others to grow closer to HaShem.

How many of us are on the madreigoh that we can continue to stare at our navels - and rabbonim can fondle women's navels - and ignore the majority of Anglo Jewery, even world Jewery?

The mainstream Jewish community created a huge kiddush HaShem.

What did UOHC do?

Latest Keddassia and GG gosip, Its not a purim toirah! said...

Latest GG news,

Hendon Addass has a special (pro eruv) committee to elect a new Rav. Over F months has gone by to no avail and Rabbi Roberts has had enough and last week moved his seat in shul away from the Rav's shtender to the other side and is now refusing to pasken shailos as he is no longer the Rav.

HA is also considering leaving the union.

Another situation is developing with lbs (london board of shecitah) as their biggest licencee has given notice and is negotiating leaving lbs to go to a new federation hechsher. It's very fluid but I can confirm lbs has had over 20 extraordinary meetings at the highest levels over the last 3 weeks as if the feds make a new hechsher that could mean the end of lbs!

This could be the start of a new heimish non keddassia hechshe in GG and the beginning of GG breaking away from kedassia.

It's all very fluid but I will post updates as they come in.

Snag said...

There already is a "heimish non keddassia hechsher in GG". Shefa Mehadrin has good quality food at excellent prices. And for good measure, you're not subsidising the SH gangsters.

Broader London Shechita said...

Fed Mehadrin, Shefa Mehadrin, Oif Mehadrin – the more the merrier.

Yes, at some stage we’ll reach saturation point, but what we need at the moment is for the cosy cartel of LBS and Kedassia to be given a kick up the rear end.

The fact that the LBS turned down the Fed’s proposal to launch a “Mehadrin” brand under LBS auspices, in part because the processor’s competitors disapproved and also out of a desire to avoid direct competition with Kedassia, tells you all you need to know. There’s a reason that many of the established butchers are so wealthy, and it’s not because the consumer is currently well-served.

I have no doubt that the LBS is an effectively-run and transparent organisation, but their stifling of innovation and competition is not in the consumer’s interest. All that and far more applies to Kedassia, of course.

Mr Meat said...

The feds are confused thinking they can start a mehadrim hechsher with Dayan Lickstentein at the helm. A lot of heimisha people won't see him as appropriate to head up a heimisher hechsher. And we know its all about perception.

Consumers can only benefit from the probably end of play to all this shifting of power. It certainly looks like the Lbs will be competing with the feds if the feds give their own hechsher on meat and that without doubt will be the end of Lbs, so much koved will be hurt and the consumers will gain.

keddassia will loose whichever way it plays!

Broader London Shechita said...

Mr Meat – The “Gourmet Mehadrin” brand sold extremely well in the Cost Shop when it was available a few weeks ago, from what I hear. This brand is the future Fed Mehadrin, and it was, and will continue to be, under the hashgocho of the Belzer Dayan (R. Eckstein), Rav Schneebalg from Edgware and R. Berel Knopfler, so I imagine many who would not be comfortable with Dayan Lichtenstein alone are happy with the combination of the other rabbonim on board. I think it’s a bit premature to call for the end of LBS – this project is aimed at a market segment they weren’t previously serving directly.

The broader point is that revenues from Kedassia meat sales fund the services provided by the UOHC – barely any of which reach NW London (unless you particularly value their wall calendars). The Union is also utterly conflicted in its role as the owner, distributor and hashgocho on its meat. It is also a generally discredited and corrupt organisation, which, two and a half years later, has failed to do anything to deal with what it called “the allegations affecting one of our rabbonim” – anything that minimises their pernicious influence on Golders Green should be welcomed.

Free the Fleish said...

Competition is good, bring it on. The Gourmet mehadrin they sold a few weeks ago in the Outelt (aka cost shop) was cheap, good quality and with choshuver rabbonim on the label declaring it kosher. If the Feds are behind it and going to bring more of it - great. It's expensive enough to live in our community and I'll take whatever help I can get.

Lbs on brink of collapse said...

Gilberts has now left the Lbs and is now under the federation

lbs sent out an email on fri confirming this

for lbs to loose their biggest licensee is the start of the collapse of lbs, in my opinion

Free the Fleish said...

Why is the LBS on the brink of collapse? The LBD left them once upon a time and they didn't collapse.

FdUpinFinchley said...

Are you serious? You REALLY think that three elderly Rabbis (no matter how distinguished) can create a hechsher and associated backup for a modern hi-tech kashrus operation in the 21st century to the standard of the LBS and LBD?

This will, unfortunately, lead to the dilution of standards, not their improvement. And the truth ofcourse is that it's all about money.

Aryeh said...

FedUp - you clearly know not of what you speak. What hi-tech practices do the LBS have in place that the Federation don't? In truth, the LBS shechita is more or less run by Dayan Lichtenstein anyway. Dayan Gelley is very busy with being rosh beis din of the LBD and does not have particular expertise in shechita per se, while the newly appointed Rabbi Dwek is still finding his feet.

This actually has less to do with money than you think - had the LBS not worked themselves into a huff about a mehadrin sticker being attached to one very limited line of meat being sold in the cost shop, none of this would be happening. The original plan was for the Fed not to receive a single penny of revenue - and even if everything runs as anticipated the profits will be meagre. What this is actually about is shaking up a very cozy cartel that leads all of us to overpay for our kosher meat.

Bill from the Hill said...

Collapse of the lbd? its collapse of the UOHC taht we all want!!!!!

Disgusted of Golders Green said...

I'm not eating this meat for the following reasons 1) shechita munachas is tzaar bar lechaim 2) [...] wittheld details about his plans to the Fed board meeting last week - he promises the undeliverable to every stakeholder just to get power. His fellow trustees are handpicked - weak, young and stupid UOHC shul graduates 3) under the new structure the shochtim are employed by producer directly rather than by the machshirim. Sure there are plenty of self interested people making very good money out of the current arrangements. Largely the same people will make a quick buck by ripping up 2 centuries of carefully drafted governance. All this at a time when shechted meat is coming under intense government scrutiny. Nobody - certainly not the children running the Federation - can know the consquences of this vandalism.

So, fleish freeing gourmands - be careful about what you wish for.

Aryeh said...

This should have no impact whatsoever on the LBD. And its ramifications for the LBS have been dramatically overstated too. As far as I'm aware, the Fed is not planning to secede from the LBS, which will continue operating in its current format. The fact that one meat producer is changing its hechsher is hardly an earthquake.

Shimon said...

I've never been to a tzaar bar lechaim, but it sounds like fun.

Aryeh said...

Disgusted - this whole brouhaha could have been easily avoided had not the LBS chosen to stymie the original proposals, under which Fed Mehadrin meat would have remained under LBS auspices (just as Oif Mehadrin meat is), for the most ridiculous reasons. Sometimes it takes fresh faces to see the existing order for what it is.

Too Heimish for my shirt said...

"Tzaar bar lechaim" ??? LOL

Clearly this new shechita isn't aimed at you so enjoy your bangers and mash while we stick to griven and gala

Shimon said...

So the anonymous Fed council member deems his trustees weak and stupid, which is an interesting assessment given that the current leadership have done more to revitalise the Fed than their predecessors had done for decades. Nishmas Yisroel is a resounding success and occupies one of the most sought-after sites in Hendon. The new beis oilom in Edgware is making Fed membership a realistic option for many who would not previously consider it. The relocation of Finchley Central (and the sale of its old building to the wonderful Trainee organisation) and so many other things are all the result of the hard work of those too young and stupid for your tastes. It's certainly been more effective than the wisdom of the old you no doubt consider yourself graced with.

Free the Fleish said...

What makes the Board of Shechita so sacrosanct anyway? They don't have joint shechitas in America, Israel etc so why do we need one here? Let the consumer decide what to spend their money on! I can choose which hechsher I want on my milk, cheese etc so why I can't I have choices for my meat?

Lbs is a cartel said...

The LBS Objectives on the charity commission:


Simple but not what they actually do.

Actually they have become a cartel trying to control shechitah in London and they deserve to be shut down and a new non political organization should take over

local history buff said...

I'm sure there will be some protestations from the vested interests but I for one welcome the rejuvenation of the Federation. Many of the frum yidden in town have roots in pre-war Federation shtieblach but the Fed hasn't done anything significant for donkey's years. It's about time they came back from the dead promote the interests of average yid. The US is 'nicht fin inzerre' and the Union is a bit too high and mighty so let the Fed fill the gap.

New Beis Oilom, new shechita and some new shul buildings... they're clearly moving in the right direction. Hatzlocho rabboh to them

Free the Fleish said...

So - according to the JC the Feds are looking to create a Kedassia-rivaling chareidi shechita together with some very respected rabbonim. Sounds like a great plan in my opinion.

If the Cost shop sells a million quid worth of Kedassia product the total Kedassia meat sales in NW London are probably 6-7 million. If they have a 20-25% profit margin then they're easily milking our kehilla for 1.5-2 million + every year.

Time for some competition I reckon....

GGer said...

Free the fleish - I wouldn't even mind so much if there was anything to show for it, but the Union gives us almost nothing. You have to wonder what they actually do with all this money (other than, ahem, losing it in Switzerland).

Free the Fleish said...

More Chronicling of the unfolding situation.

Golders Greener said...

Rumour has it that Rabbi Greenberg's attempt to grab power is continuing with the launch of a new NW Vaad Harabonim. It's very worrying that a man who proved through the CH saga that he was prepared to put politics above principle every time is amassing so many roles. Admittedly, he's a capable moreh horo'oh, but he should definitely not be allowed to climb the greasy pole too quickly.

Free the Fleish said...


The Cost Shop / Kosher Outlet has a new line of kosher meat - 'Gourmet Mehadrin' available in the shop now. It's significantly cheaper than other lines available there and will hopefully be very popular. Hopefully this is just the beginning of lower prices and lower cost of living in the kehilla.

Dispassionate Observations from the Upper Echelons said...

Greenberg in charge of a vaad rabbonim? I'm not too worried, rabbis don't seem to accomplish very much aside from waffle on from their pulpits - few people pay heed to their out-of-touch hot air anyway. When you have a whole group of them them together it's just 'x' times zero..... which always comes to zero.

just finished my shopping, amazing savings on teh new belzer fleish in the outlet said...

I have just bought the new gourmet mehadrim meat to the tune of 6 Side Bola's for £12 kg and lots of rib eye steaks for £16 kg, amazing

The stuff is about 40% below retail prices, of course the butchers don't like the concept of cheap prices!

the outlet even employ someone to give recipes! wonderful service, all about the consumer and not the profits of the butchers.

whether the butchers are nice people or not its not about their profits but rather about the thousands of kosher consumers.

Fed spokesman( I wish) said...

The LBS are busy telling the jc that as gilbert has left they may have to shut one of their shecitah operations. This the Lbs claim would mean a shortage of kosher meat in the uk

two things slightly wrong with that
1) If they shut their operation because Gilbert would buy from somewhere else then why should that mean less meat available to the uk kosher consumer? It would only mean that LBS would loose market share. As Lbs is a registered charity that ensures supply of kosher meat, if there is plenty of kosher meat without them, so let them shut down. We could offer their trustees awards and compliments, job well done>

2) Lbs have threatened gilberts that they may not supply him beef even for his own non mehadrim sales and of course they wont cop operate with a mehadrim stream, so they refuse to sell then cry that they may have to shut their Manchester operation, what hypocrites

Have Gilberts been blackmailed by the London Board? said...

Who cares if Lbs shut??

Maybe their trustees and people who get koved from the LBS, if they are not needed let them shut down

The LBS have been annoyingly un cooperative with gilberts and have vetoed his production of a mehadrim brand, and lost him lots of money on perfectly kosher meat which they banned for non kashrut reasons. Terrible shame, the Lbs has lost its way, its role is to promote kosher meat not restrict kosher meat.

You reap what you sow, no point crying when Gilberts called your bluff Mr Lbs, you shouldn't have blackmailed gilberts to begin with, you put him in a corner and he reacted by kicking you out.

consumers come last while community leaders squabble over market share said...

Kosher deli buys all his meat from poland and not through a board of shecitah operation,

Why has this not been a contributing factor in the lbs demise?

It's all about politics, market share etc, it's no longer about helping people to keep kosher!

Keddassia is no better, in fact the board and keddassia act quite similarly and the people who loose out from these self serving cartels are the consumer.

Hopefully the charity commission will investigate?

Free the Fleish said...

B"h the meat seems to be selling well from what I saw in the Outlet. Nicely packaged and great prices will ensure people keep buying. Whoever is behind this deserves credit - yasher koichachem!

the real Fedora said...

Moshiachust be in the air... Given the number of rabbonim offered a dayanus the Fed must be looking to reestablish the Sanhedrin. What is the point of muscling out one group of badly governed kleptocrats with no respect for process and governance with.... another. Yes, it's preposterous that a shochet is on over 100k. But where will that money go to now? Gilberts and Shefa are not social enterprises. Shechita munachas - less LOL - more ROF drowning in own blood while some cheaper inexpert shochet employed by Shefa flails around with a meat hook Agriprocessor style. But clearly because I care about the credibility of kashrus and the long term future of shechita in this countr I'm not the target audience. In fact 90% of the Federation (the percentage who built up the funds the current children on the committee are so enthusiastically disbursing on charedim) aren't the target audience. Which begs the question - why?

Go form your own UOHC lite if that's what rocks 'shimon''s boat and stop hijacking a successful and stable institution not least by failing to invest in the existing constituent synagogues.

the real Fedora said...

I supppse the opinion of Sephardim lile the late Dayan Amor is.worth less even than the opinion of non Charedi observants... this is what sectarian politics is like.

And as always we the non Charedi observant didn't start it.

For the record the new Mehadrin brand is not chalak beit Yosef.

Foot in Mouth Disease said...

Hang on my fedora-sporting friend, what's shefa mehadrin got to do with anything? You seem to be well informed... are they coming under the new hechsher?

cant pull Fedora over our eyes said...

Yes. Shechita by Shefa in Ireland, then sold to Gilberts, then cost shop. Watch this space on the goldets green shefa shop.

Anonymous said...

Oh the same meat which lbs has been selling through its licensees for some time but with additional supervision has now become "inexpert"? About 50% to 70% of lbs meat is shechita munachas and Gilberts was the majority of the beef which wasn't so I guess it'll be nearer 90% of lbs beef coming from outside the uk now. Wow that's terrible. I thought the lbs wanted to protect shechita in England? The hypocrisy is "shocking"

Fedora said...

Let me get this straight. The defence for employing private sector shochtim is now not prof Rosen's 'catering for kedassia market'. It's actually the same meat as the LBS.

You say additional supervision. But who employs the shochtim? The quality of governance has in reality been decimated. This is a for profit shechita. From a trustee team who flip a bird at anyone who gets in the way.The Fed need the money to continue the great Northern give away.

Too heimish for mt (black) hat, what about that? said...

The Feds haven't been Chareidi for a hundred years but there's a broad range of people crying out for leadership. The Feds should step up by seizing the momentum so stop worrying about who has been carrying the can over the last few years - just be glad that people are actually talking about you. It's amazing to think that the Feds may even start to become relevant! Who woulda thought it?!?

Fed up of Golders Green said... for why shechita munachas is illegal in this country, is not practiced in the main LBS abbatoir in Manchester and is now going to make up the vast majority of kosher beef sold in the UK. Hope the Fed trustees will make replacement donations to the late R Weingarten's ShechitaUK advocacy group, notwithstanding the obviously deleterious impact of this change in continuing to make the case for kosher. Shechita munachas claims to be a hiddur to prevent the shochet pressing the knife. The reality is that animals have been shechted the right way around for thousands of years by real mumchim, and this is just the first of many cut corners. Shechita munachas increases throughput and compensates for inexperience. And this is what the Fed are proud of.

As he now seems to hold council meetings on tickle, could the trustee for social media confirm that he will be a genuine credit to R' Weingarten zl and continue contributing to ShechitaUK? Or is this complicating the marketing led money grab?

Who designed the layout of the shtempel? The Rabbis or the Outlet?

And will he explain why only charedim are 'relevant'? Are sephardim irrelevant? Are we non charedi but perfectly observant irrelevant? Are the council members and the LBS and anything else not controlled by the trustees irrelevant? Is accountability irrelevant?

If it ain't broke don't electroshock it into a cage, flip it the wrong way around and cut its neck.

Anonymous said...

Aah my fedora sporting friend, you misunderstand, I have no interest in taking or defending sides but in clarifying facts. You fail to confirm that meat you claim to be inexpertly shechted in an agriprocessor like fashion is indeed approved and sold through lbs licensees and yet you say your concerned about the credibility of kashrus? Pot? Kettle? Do you think the lbs will stop their licensees from accepting meat which has been perfectly acceptable to them until now for non kashrus reasons? Maybe those licensees will look to Gilberts in how to respond to bullying?

I wonder how long cattle shechita in the UK will last now that 90% of lbs beef is from outside the UK. That would surely rock a boat or two...

Animal loving said...

Fed up, as a fellow animal lover I too share your concerns. Where do you buy your meat from? Are there any restaurants which are ethically ok meat-wise?

Fedora said...

Amidst the cacophony of kettles being thrown around, facts are beginning to emerge. It is a fact that the Fed's move increases the percentage supply of beef which has been produced with welfare standards that would be illegal here. At a stroke of a minister's pen such imports couldbe cut off. Blaming the LBS for failing to assume the supine position of cattle lead to slaughter will fool nobody - after all Gilberts terminated the contract with LBS not the other way around. This was a botched hatchet job which gotten very messy.

So Kosher beef eaters of London - here is the beed. We draw a step closer to the scenario where the closest restaurant, ethical or otherwise, serving Kosher meat, will be in Paris. Where commercial interests and branding trump Kashrus. Where jockeying for money and power pass for leadership. Where emphasising disunity and contempt for others is used to signal strength.

But has the Fed trustees killed the goose who laid their golden eggs?

Lbs is iurrelevant and may as well shut down said...

Labs are now insignificant,

Most of their butchers buy from abroad and since they have now refused to allow gilberts to buy from them they have said that they may now have to shut their shecitah in Manchester. It does not mean the end of shechitah in the uk but rather the end of the lbs shechitah in the uk,

keddassia, Manchester beis din, machsikei addass and gateshead still shect in th uk

All this mean the Lbs as an organization is losing market share and becoming irrelevant
The Lbs should face facts, most kosher consumers now want a mehadrim hechsher and the traditional Lbs market is shrinking

The Belzr Rabbi who is shutting LBS and taking over the market, quietly said...

Who cares if LBS shuts down!

Keddassia sell most of the kosher meat in London and Shefa is very big.

Next is Deli with their polish beef which has nothing to do with LBS and is shechted under a different hechsher in Poland and all LBS do is collect a license fee for doing nothing. They may as well not give supervision to Deli.

So if LBS goes its not the end of kosher meat in the uk.

It would be the beginning of a brighter future for the kosher consumer.

Dayan Eckstein from Belz Stamford Hill is the biggest player with all the new meat under him. He is a quiet an unassuming man but actually in control of a significant % of kosher meat into London!

Free the Fleish said...


"Gilbert's, he wrote, "will continue to buy similar quantities of meat from those abattoirs, albeit with a non-LBS licence. There will be no reduction in the provision of kosher slaughter in the UK"

So, the entire brouhaha is over which rabbi watches the death blow of the poor sacrificial cow? I must be missing something - I thought the Feds were wrecking the future of shechita in the UK?

Why should the consumer really care about all the arguments up there ^^^ ? Ultimately he's getting good prices and a hechsher from great rabbonim. Sounds like *a good deal*.

why pay more for your glat meat! said...

The new gourmet mehadrim beef with a hechsher from dayan Eckstein (belz sh) rav shneibalg (edgware) and rav knopfler (GG) is flying of the shelves in kosher outlet.

Side bola's at £12 kg compared to keddassia at £19 kg and many other ridiculous low prices but the quality is good.

Now that looks like an advert! But it's really a clarification of our lovely kehilah owned keddassia who charge us way to much for the luxury of keeping kosher!

Keddassia own the abattoir and obviously are either ripping us off or rather bad business men,
Or a bit of both!!

We should all support our kehilah but really the kehilah should be supporting us!!

Just some food for thought!

I heard pickled tounges were £7.75kg? True?

straw summer hat said...

Ultimately you pay for what you get....

If you buy kedassia meat you pay for 'roided chickens and a discredited system of patronage.

If you buy Fed meat you pay for shefa carrying out their own shechita, and for an overpriced shul in Manchester.

If you buy lbs meat you pay for an over-remunerated shochet (also in Manchester) and a reliable independant hechsher.