Thursday, 15 December 2011

Occupied Territory at Springfield Synagogue


I was going to write with a background to this but time’s in short supply. Battle has however been joined in the other post so I’ll move the messages over here and let them continue but please folk keep it civil.


  1. Dayan Guko has always been right wing and has alienated his former members who stopped attending. He has lost his battle at the London BD but he is fighting on, putting up notices and issurim. He has now amassed a new minyan of chasidim mostly dropouts and is fighting for his survival. He has friends and relations in the Union but they are all in awe of the LBC and will do nothing to help him. He has still to learn that you cant fight money.

  2. Springfield. synagogue15 December 2011 at 16:53

    Dayan Gukovitsky Shlit”a

    Dayan Gukovitsky has always been a “anti Zionist” he always express this in his Droshas on shabos shuve and Hagadol

    As for his battle: he did not lose his battle by any mean at the LBD as one of the mayor issues in the so clearly written Psak of the LBD is : that any issue regarding Minhogim, Nussach , or layout in the Shul cant take place with out the approval of the Rav!

    His issur by the way of not allowing to daven in nussach Sefard at the Springfield Shul is halachadig based (as it is well known for example when the wisnitzer rebbe was in the “rem”a “ shul in Cracow he also davent nussach ashkenas as you not allowed to do other in a Ashkenas Shul and vice versa) and by those “ rich chevre” ignoring the Rav’s clear Psak the only shooting in their own legs!

    Our Rav will never ever “learn” that you can’t fight agains money! He is one of the only Rabonim I know who would not be scared to say his clearly daas Toire, and should it much be uncomfortable for so and so “ gevirim” as he has done in the past and will do until his last breath.

    Springfield. synagogue

  3. Look if his rich gevirim who at the moment pay for everything left or as he puts it are given notice (he will still take their money)on what is he going to live. He cant suddenly rent out the place to anyone else.
    Come on.
    How much do the chasidim dropouts in his minyan pay if anything.
    Let him show is satmar credentials and refuse their 'dirty' money.
    NO WAY.

  4. His issur as the LBD have said has no basis in halacha.
    In halacha if the members change so does the nussach.
    At the moment his dropout chasidim do not daven ashkenaz either.
    The rov does not decide the nussach, he is only employed, he forgets that he is not the boos. The members do.
    And how are they shooting their own legs because he said meesa meshuna on them. Ever heard a rov talking like that. Yes moshe rabainu on korach.


    As an aside even the besht never davenned what today is called sefard.

  6. 'Rabbi' G Cohen his head of management is a bochur and a solicitor. Since when does a solicitor or bochur get the title Rabbi. Why not dayan?
    Rabbi Akiva Eiger was against a bochur becoming a rabbi.
    Is this again daas torah from dayan Guko.

  7. Whats does Dayan AD Dunner say about all this?

  8. Dayan Dunner did the same in his Tottenham shul. When he became rov he did away with the yekishe singing on shabbos feeling ashamed of his roots. What would happen if R Leib Gurwicz would one day attend he would be a laughing stock. He is that now anyway putting his name in the US papers as Raavad of London when he isnt. No kiddush friday night either. They both together tried to get rid of R Meir Posen who was in charge of the mikvas. But the old R Padwa wouldnt hear of it. But Dayan Guko at least has written great works.

  9. Rich Gevirim:

    The Rav does not make a living on what this Gevirim are paying! Have you got any idea how much the Rav is being paid (salary?) 70 something £ a week (with no pay rise in the last 20 some years… against his contract)

    Can he rent out the place? Is it not for the Rav to rent out a place! But lets be realistic you all know the place the Ohel moshe beis medrash (with mikve) at the lower ground floor, 3 offices at the first floor with a decent size hall, and 3 more offices at the top floor, (all this in the heart of Stamford Hill- 202 Upper Clapton) how much income could that produce? And now one will need the huge generosity of those “ gevirim” who came into that place with a tenancy agreement and decided on a nice day the don’t have to pay any rent (but will pay utility bills instead- mochel toiwes)

    (Besides the point that the LBD never mentioned in their Psak anythink that Mr. ….. who is on the board occupies two floors of offices for free (!) does not need to pay for them.)

    The Chasidim dropouts (?) have you ever been in our Shul recently? Have you seen how much mispalelim we have each shabos tefilo? There is no empty seat an no shabos minyan,.

    His Issur: were does the LBD say something about his Issur, could you refer to a section or paragraph in the Psak?

    The members: the Chasidim minyan has not put so far any more (paying) members into the Shul! At the last election’s (just less than one year ago) the have been 11(!) people who had voting rights who did actually wote, were have been all those members from the Ohel Moshe minyan? The have been 11 people voting themselves in for 12 honorary offices, so were all those chasidishe memebers? (Beside the point that many Springfield synagogue members did not vote as the Psak of the Rav)

    Nussach: again, it is mentioned clearly in the Psak of the LBD that any change in Nussach, minhagim or even layout of the Shul (i.e. tables etc.) can’t be made without the approval of the Rav, so firstly on what did you based your judgment that it is not for the Rav to decide? (Against the clear, Psak of the LBD)

    The members: currently the are about 15-18 paying members (with voting rights-after one year paying) who are actually davening in the Shul (both Springfield & Ohel Moshe Minyan) (the are an other 200+ members who do not live in London at all or are not botherd to come to daven) paying members the are about the same amount of ashkenas or sefard. So way should a shul who is packed and already davens over 90 years on nussach ashkenas just change the nussach?

    Rabbi G Cohen:

    Yes he is a Bochur, and he is a solicitor (and honorary officer in the burial society of the Federation) a rabbi is called who ever learned for it and also served as a “rabbi” and (I did not “far-her” him, but he does have semiche, and served indeed as Rav of the “lea bridge Shul)
    Other issues: Members list: the Rav hes been refused by the secretary of the current board of management the list of members of the Shul because of the Data Protection Act….. besides the point I m sure no one ever heard such ridicules “taana” that a Rav is not entitled to know who his members are…. But Beis Din clearly Paskend that the Rav is entitled as Rav to have full Members List with immediate effect. The Psak was written on October 11th the Rav still does not have the list because the secretary (also an old Bachur- with co operation of the other board members) has issues with the Data Protection Act. ……

    So who is listening to Beis Din?.....

    The full Psak Beis Din and other correspondence like the answer from the ICO(Data Protection)(on the subject who should keep the members list and who not according to the DPA) are available (on polite request) at email :

  10. First of all I would like to request from the blog owner to obtain the full psak and put it here for everyone to see. Not a watered down version of it.
    Because the previous poster has much to hide I doubt if he will do it.
    Let us go through the psak line by line.
    Those two hundred members if and its a big if, if they are still alive and dont come to daven ever, have no say in the nusach.
    All the chasidish dropouts of what the minyan is made up of today daven sefard. So most of his regular shabbos minyan daven sefard.
    I may add even the litvish rabbonim who daven there, daven sefard. And dont put on tfillin chol hamoed which really goes together.
    Why call a person rabbi who is not a practicing rabbi. Does he use this title on his solicitor letter heads as well. Or hi dayan Guco opening a beth din as well in competition to LBD and using him since he has semicha as one of his dayanim. He could include D Dunner as well since the union doesnt want him anyway. He cant use his brother in law. If you went to the LBD why didnt you get a proper psak if he has to pay for the upstairs rooms. Whats the point of going and afterwards saying they never gave a psak for this or for that.
    Considering he is the boss of the board of management its like his shul (not the rovs) and can do what he likes. Remember the rov put him into this position many years ago. So he cant suddenly now say he is taking him out or got there by false pretenses. It is true he got there through them but the rov put him there with them.
    I am sure the rav has a list or knows exactly who the 18 paying members are. Why should the rov be entitled to know the other 200 half dead ones. What can he do for them. Keep them alive. These 18 paying ones you mention who turn up are all davenning sefard. Dont forget that.

  11. I forgot whats a Cohen doing in a burial society. Making aronos. Or as a solicitor making their last will and testament. Its nice of the federation to offer a comprehensive service. The union should take note, it would save a lot of problems with yerushos.

  12. Cohen in a burial society:

    The Federation must have learned it from the chevra kadishe “Chasidim” in Jerushalayim. As far as I know the “rosh ha chevre” is no other than R’ Chaim yizchok Cohen….. (What does he do over there? Cutting aronos?)

    Members Nussach:

    You mention that all those 18 daven nussach sefard, interesting: I know at least half of them who have all their live Davent ashkenas you know that as well and every one who visits the shul known’s it

    Members List:

    1) the Rav is entitled to have it, because the Data Protection Says so, because the LBD says so, and because its part of his duties to stay in contact with does members and also be at their Lewaye, or Shive (please note that the secretary has withhold this information from the Rav for many years, and often the Rav found out that one of his members past away the last day of the shive…)
    Why not give it to the Rav? Someone treys to hide some think? Scared of some think?

    Those members paying all their lives full membership (much more of those “GEVIRIM” have put into the shul all years together) there is an income (seen on the Shul’s accounts) that there is an income of about 20k yearly of membership, that’s about more than half of the funds the Shul needs to run itself (ad there some rent, and no one needs any generosity of anybody!) and the famous “klal” baal ha mea , baal ha dea , so as long as the constitutions of the Shul have not been changed and per constitution those “ half dead” as long as the pay have full voting rights on all issues.


    It’s obviously that today every small askan is called Rabbi, even if he had never had any semisha or served as a Rabbi, and here you have one who did both but is not serving as a one at the moment, Gevald!!! Gevald!!! Are you really so stupid?


    When have you lat been in the Shul a shabes? All the dropouts …. What a nice expression, and the Ohel Moshe Minjan? Were those people come from? Dropouts from Neturei karta, used mainly as early minyan when needed to walk out to a shabos west end Palestinian protest.

    Tefilin on chol hamoed:

    Wow, so really we all sefardim, tell me how many minyanim sefard you know in Stamford hill or worldwide who say “Bame madlikin” on Friday night as part of the tefillo? I know many but the are all ashkenas…. Ups there is one (half ashkenas) Ohle Moshe on 202 Upper Clapton lower ground floor.

    I m a bit confused on who you talking about when you say the Rav put im into that (witch) position and is it true , and now the Rav cant,

    Firstly: if as board member the Rav has no power to put anyone into the board unless he is voted in by the members, but lets say you are right the Rav has had such power’s ( but when did he lose them?) why than cant he remove someone who he put himself in there?

    Beside the main point that the main issue why members went to the LBD was not because of a Nassach change.

    Springfield Synagogue

  13. If they dont put on tfillin chol hamoed and have not been to Israel then they have changed to ashkenaz. Some who have become litvaks do this but keep not putting on tfillin.
    Of your 18 members how many dont put on tfillin.
    Why not come clean of the 18 members how many daven upstairs.
    The rov never attends a shiva or levaya only to those who daven there he said this himself however much they pay. He doesnt even know them. So that excuse is nonsense.
    I am talking about the head of the downstairs minyan who is now in charge of the shul. He does sometimes daven upstairs as well.
    Really every askan is a rabbi perhaps by chasidim because they have no others. I can see that Dayan Guco is really chasidish and should be davenning sefard.
    The rav doesnt have the power but he is the power behind the throne. he put Hillman in. He got all 'new members' and even paid their dues.
    Yes the downstairs minyan has also their share of drop outs. They come shabos morning straight from bed to almost the end of davenning and then go straight back into it.
    Both minyanim are drop out minyanim and make a good pair.
    You havent replied why you went to LBD and didnt get all issues settled like the upstairs rent.
    Will have to carry on next thread.


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